slueth1
|
SP sound and sampling techniquesHi,
I copped an SP-1200 Reissue edition couple of months back to compliment my setup, and I've been mainly using it as a sound module, recording drum hits, one shots, chops etc and then sequencing on the MP .
My question relates to the "SP sound.
Do many people here consider the detuned artifact sound (45rpm sampled in then pitched down etc etc) the primary feature of the SP? Sometimes my drums sound a little too crunched when repitched.
Do many of you guys ever use it without using the detuned artifact trick? I'm noticing that the sound does not change that much when I sample in normally (without the 45 sample pitch down technique).
|
DFACE DXA
|
yeah some people never detune some do it sometimes some do it all the times. im in the middle.
|
Deck Daddy
|
I usually don't pitch hi-hats and snares, and often not kicks, but I often pitch everything else.
I really think the SP sound is special even when not pitched too: drums bang twice the source it's sampled from. I smile each time I sample anything into it BANG!
|
thx
|
sometimes i pitch the samples when i wanna do a longer loop, but i don't pitch the short samples (kick, snares, etc...). i really like the pitched sounds, but, yes, sometimes the pitched samples are too crunchy for me. the extreme pitch change generate some strange and unnatural overtones, but i generally enjoy it.
|
RHYTHM MONSTER
|
I don't pitch drum hits but I pitch breaks, always pitch loops or long samples, I never pitch bass stabs before sampling just after to make bass lines and I try not to pitch horns unless I have to. I worked with the 12T first and got used to pitching everything but now on the 00 I've had to learn what I like and don't like pitched. No matter what the sound is beautiful so enjoy.
|
One Two
|
Yeah, it depends on the sample but in general:
I sample drums at normal speed maybe pitch em up or down one on the SP.
I find the snare always smacks when sampled in the SP.
Again with bass, if pitched down to much in the SP it doesn't sound to smooth.
All other samples I pitch up on the SL1200 & down on the SP, I love the SP sparkle.
I sample a lot of 45's so there is not so much room to pitch them up to sample, but they still crack in the SP.
End of the day I want that SP sound in to my beats so pitching down just makes sounds grittier.
I got the MPC60 MKII but that is gathering dust as the sound is to smooth for me.
|
Deck Daddy
|
| One Two wrote: | I sample a lot of 45's so there is not so much room to pitch them up to sample, but they still crack in the SP.
End of the day I want that SP sound in to my beats so pitching down just makes sounds grittier.
I got the MPC60 MKII but that is gathering dust as the sound is to smooth for me. |
Dust off that 60 and use it to pitch up your 45's so you get the most grit and sampling time out of your SP!
|
One Two
|
Yeah can do, sampling twice is a little tiresome to me though.
Same with the S950.
I love the workflow & ease of use making entire beats in the SP, as you know Deck Daddy it's amazing what you can do with the 10 seconds if you use it creatively.
|
Mr Macks
|
interesting to hear how people are using it ... I usually pitch kick snares hihats to 45+8% ad then detune - but not cymabls or open hats as it tends to sound crappy on those.
For most instruments I usually try at 45+8 and if I'm ahppy with it keep it, if it sounds too weird then re-take the sample at normal speed or whatever. I seem to find that with bass sometimes I don't like the pitched down effects, but then again often just using the filters output 1 or 2 can get around that to get a good sound again, using up less memory.
Also - it's funny how a sound can have a slight ring in it at a certain frequency which is not really noticebale, but when you sample in at a higher speed and then pitch it down that ringing sound can be totally accentuated.
|
peterpiper0815
|
Oh talking about pitching? Cool, I got also a question. I think some of you (maybe all of you) use an EQ before sampling. How do you handle the problem that the frequency range of the signal you want increase by playing the vinyl at 45 rpm
For example: You want to boost the bassline in your sample, but when you samlpe at 45 rpm the EQ band (Bass) of the DJ Mixer doesn't really boost the bass frequencies of the sample.
I think the best way is to use a parametric EQ (but I dont have one) to raise the mids/lower mids (in that case).
What do you think/use?
peace
|
essence
|
Sometimes I pitch sometimes I don't. Depends on what sounds good.
There are times I like to sample everything @45RPM and try to make it sound as good as possible with proper EQing/Filtering.
peterpiper: What problem? Just pre-eq the frequency you want.
Since sampling @45RPM adds some highs you can cut a bit off with pre-eqing.
Everyone: What outputs you generally use for what type of sample?
Usually I use output 1 & 2 for bass, 3 for kicks, 6 for snares, 5 for hihats and 7 & 8 for main samples.
|
loopwhole
|
vestax pdx 2000 is great for pitching 45s. i dont know about other vestax tables, but im shure they would be fit. The pdx was actually designed with the sp1200 in mind! casts be swearing by the tecs but im straight on them frail ass things...
|
DFACE DXA
|
peter you bring up a good point
wont the part you eq'd be different after the pitching?
nobody else sees this?
|
Mr Macks
|
Yep, I see and agree.
The way I do it using compuetr gets around this - sample into computer, do some eq etc if needed, then pitch up to 45+8 (because I feel like that 45+8 is a 'magic number' or something, lol) or up 12 semitones, whatever, then sample sound back out in the SP.
I know some don't agree with going into a PC then back to the SP, but really going thru another sampler or even different mixers etc is going to slightly color your sound anyway. The only real problem I have with my way is it can slow up your work flow - saving file names, etc. Then again I work slowly anyway.
|
leon freeze
|
| Mr Macks wrote: |
I know some don't agree with going into a PC then back to the SP, but really going thru another sampler or even different mixers etc is going to slightly color your sound anyway. |
Ay..if you don't mind me asking..what is your signal path into the PC? That IMO would be the only limitation or whatever. I on a rare occasion pre-stage sounds in Protools then 'export region as file' so I can manipulate it elsewhere. In my case though..I run my source through a Rosetta 200 either D/D or with a line pre.
What I'm gettin' at is..if you run stuff into a PC first without a good signal path..you might be robbing your sounds of life before they even get to your workstation(s). Some cats don't care..so it's cool either way..but it can make a difference in how your kicks, bass and snares sound sometimes.
On a side note..I'm not big on sampler-to-sampler sound manipulation for basically the same reason..it seems to take away life. Just some contstructive input on the subject...having every component in a 'premium' signal path still doesn't generate the raw musical ideas ultimately anyway.
|
ALX
|
First of all if you want to sample something other than drums, in order to have the right key note of the sample you should play on the Technics 1200mk2 somewhere around 45rp +4.5%. It may differ since some old Technics may need a new pitch slider.
| peterpiper0815 wrote: | Oh talking about pitching? Cool, I got also a question. I think some of you (maybe all of you) use an EQ before sampling. How do you handle the problem that the frequency range of the signal you want increase by playing the vinyl at 45 rpm
For example: You want to boost the bassline in your sample, but when you samlpe at 45 rpm the EQ band (Bass) of the DJ Mixer doesn't really boost the bass frequencies of the sample.
I think the best way is to use a parametric EQ (but I dont have one) to raise the mids/lower mids (in that case).
What do you think/use?
peace |
I always EQ my stuff before I put them into the SP1200.
for example if im sampling a main loop I usualy dont want the bass in it, since im gonna put some other bass. the bass is somewhere from 80hz (or lower) to 150hz (or higher). If you pitch the sound higher you might find the bass around 300hz - 400hz - 500hz or whatever.
I use a Mackie 32-8 with parametric EQ to do this. You cannot do that with a fixed EQ on a mixer, unless you have an oldschool mixer with a graphic EQ on it (like the one Pete Rock used back in the 90s). If your a digital guy you can record your samples in the computer, EQ it there and sample in to the SP.
This way (by taking out the unwanted bass) your total sound level is lower now and you can raise the input level a bit more taking advantage of the headroom you have before your signal peaks. Maybe you get better singal to noise ratio when mixing.
When I sample a hihat off a record I even take out low frequencies (usualy 500hz or lower) for the same reason.
From what Ive seen, if you tend to pitch the sample higher or lower its better to take out the frequencies you wont want in the end. This way you have the best resaults when the rind modulation effect appears. You get clean grime sound, not muddy.
|
goldenmean
|
yeah, its ideal if you can eq and sample direct off of the dj mixer and a good needle, but it really all depends. sometimes you get a really dope sample but need a more accurate eq to shape it right before you sample it. with a computer its also nice and quick to grab a long section from a record, say like 10 minutes and sample out/edit a bunch of less obvious spots into the sp. you cant join or layer samples in the 1200 either so a computer helps for stacking drum hits/making longer tails/extra noise etc pre-sp. lately ive been into sampling hits with alot of other drones or sounds going on at the same time...sp really glues multiple hits into one! at the same time you can randomly grab vinyl sections on the sp without paying much attention and have it be sort of choppy and dope on accident. i do both though...lots of old school dudes have sampled from cassettes and things so i dont sweat fidelity on certain samples if theres other stuff crisp and hitting on some pads.
|
Ninetyloop
|
I dont usually detune the drums, if I sample at normal speed cause they tend to lose a little bit of the dynamics that I want.
But on samples I try to save sampling time and do the usual trick and get them in on fast speed and then slow them down.
| essence wrote: | | Everyone: What outputs you generally use for what type of sample? |
I did alot of my beats like this:
1 - kick
2 - bass
3 - snare
5 - hihat
7&8 - samples
The remaining channels I use for percussions and vocals and such.
|
goldenmean
|
i dont always use outputs 1 and 2 or at least have one open on the sp so i use it as a sort of effects send when programming beats out.
i like dubby stuff bouncing over top of tracks and use one of those space echo units and some moog pedals with the sp.
so if i have a snare (or kick or anything really) on output 7 or 6 etc ill copy it to a new pad and make that copy sound be channel 1 or 2.
then i plug the individual output of that channel in all the way to eliminate the filtering and run that through the effects units (usually keeping things 100 percent wet) and then feed that into the mixer thats getting the rest of the sp signals and blend it.
than i work the effected copied pads into the beat programming, sometimes layering an echo'd snare underneath the dry one, putting weird filtered out kicks in as fills etc...it def adds a little bit more options into sequencing things out since the sample time is so limited.
i sort of stumbled into doing this and i like it since i got frustrated trying to keep sequences fresh doing the same sp programming. alot of you guys prob already do shit like this maybe.
|
peterpiper0815
|
Ok I just found out something new to me about the s950. I like to take closer looks on the sound of samplers and so I experimented a bit with the 950 and a sinesweep. I found out that the recording level plays a big role. I knew that before cause a bit of distortion gives a nice sound. But....
Its not just distortion. There is something that happen to the sound before reaching the distortion. ALIASING.
The more level you give to the inputs, the more aliasing will be on the sample. (I got audio and visual examples so if you are interested I will post them)
My question now is. Does the SP show the same behaviour? Is there less of aliasing (ringing) when the you sample at lower input gain?
Would be very cool if someone with the SP could test this. Thanks
peace
|
|
|
