A/D - D/A

Drinks · A/D - D/A

My first thread.

We all love the SP sound. But I was wondering how many of you actually use good analog to digital convertors when recording into your computers. It seems really silly to have these great D/A's from the SP going into anorexic audio interfaces.

I always felt that the entire image shrank when the recording was played back from the computer. Then I hired a Prism Dream convertor with AES and SPDIF and the sound recording blew me away. When my budget permits, I'll get an Apogee Rosetta 800.

How good are your convertors?

Drinks

P.S. Thanks for setting this forum up. Its really useful.

DFACE DXA

sp comes thru raw on any set of convertors. ive bounsed it to tape, to the apogee, to protools. whatevers clever. are you gonna get a better image wiht better convertors? yeah that goes for anything. are you wasting the sound of the sp by using shitty convertors.... hell no. ive heard sp beats thru a mbox that sound a million times rawer than any other machine thru the best convertors. hiphop is grimey. it aint about the best convertors....

Drinks

So better convertors = better image. We agree on that. If you've recorded to tape than you should know how good the warmth is due to the tape compression. Digital is cold and although I also agree the sound is grimy and raw regardless of the convertor, I'm talking about how much extra headroom and definition you can get by using 24/96 vs. 16/41.

DFACE DXA

if you want headroom get some 2 inch....

Drinks

Sure. But you're still going to have to digitise it at some point. But I agree, tape sounds best. I used to record onto 8 track and it sounded louder and tighter.

goldenmean · ...

those high end AD converters are really nice, but they are insanely expensive. even the 2 channel ones cost at least 1,000 bones. id consider setting shit like that up if i was doing music on the level of soundtrack work or seriously getting paid for shows, but most people cant swing that sort of thing. plus there are problems that come up when you end up dithering that audio down to the eventual 44.1. in general 44.1 32 bit works just fine.

analog 8 track tape is nice too but thats a whole other set of problems...any gear that old gets plagued with bad signal paths because all the diodes etc are all old and dried out.. not to mention calibrating the heads and all of that. most people i meet that 'make beats' seem like they can barely plug in a signal chain right so i dont know, you really have to stay on top of that older analog gear.

i think basic audio soundcards and digital recorders sound sort of thin and crappy.. but they are quick and if you mess with signal chains and plug ins you can get shit to sound cool. its better to just use what you can rather than sweat the audiophile soundquality too much. theres a lot of amazing 60's and 70's records that were recorded on less than ideal studio setups but the music stood out more than anything.

DFACE DXA · Re: ...

Drinks

"There were alot of 60's 70's records that stood out"

My point exactly. The sound "stood out" because they were recorded to analogue. Digital is far colder and flat and so needs those convertors. I know y'all apreciate convertors cause the SP's you use have brilliant convertors. That gives them the punch and depth.

Drinks

Well, I got myself an Apogee Duet and the converters rock. A bigger stereo image and better defined lows and mids. Night and Day IMO.

Deta!L

I agree with both of you...

that said when I get the loot,

will be mine

Drinks

Word.

But you're talkin big money, like Dan Lavry's converters:

http://www.lavryengineering.com/

But there are some cheaper ones on the market which have just sprung up like the lynx aurora which is 8 channel or 16 channel:

http://www.lynxstudio.com/aurora/index.html

OR again, Big Money (I use these at work and they are pinnacle):

http://www.prismsound.com/music_r...ducts_subs/ada8xr/ada8xr_home.php

The Duet is true but its only 2 inputs (mic or instrument) so I just send 2 at a time. I got loads of re-routing to do anyhow cause the SP's got 2 hissy outs and I avoid using them now (even with a gate).

Deta!L

that crane song has this dope "saturation" type, fatso, harmonic distortion type steez though..... Cool

sequoia1232

Yo! Just wanted to let you guys know that I have access to and have used the cranesong hedd extensively. Definitely not worth the money for what we're doing with it. The harmonic distortion and saturation effects work much better on live music (especially guitars or bass). It is actually designed to be a high end converter more than anything.

I also owned the empirical labs fatso for a time, but felt similarily, that it wasn't worth the investment for running a sampler through. The difference in sound was insignificant, although it was great on the 2-buss of the mix with vocals.

I've tried or owned nearly everything including Phoenix audio DRS neve style pres with 80db of gain for beefing up samples. So far this high end stuff hasn't gotten me that excited.

The things I have enjoyed are the API a2d direct into the digital input of of my mpc3000le. And the Alan Smart c2 on the 2-buss.

I've come to the conclusion that the best solution for me is just going straight into the sampler. This is hip-hop, not rocket science, most of our favorite recordings have been made very simply. Knowing the machine and your records inside and out is the best way to get a good sound. Then you have some money left to print up some vinyl when your done. As with everything, thats just my opinion and others may have different experiences.

To summarize, I agree that the sp1200 sounds just fine the way it is...

Drinks

Nothing wrong with the SP's sound. Its getting that sound faithfully into the DAW and back out again. There is definitely a difference when recording at 96kHz compared to 44.1kHz. There is also a difference in headroom using a basic convertor to track, and the prism we use at work, for instance.

You say "for what we're doing with it" - I'm not sure we are doing the same thing.

Good to see someone throwing their hat into the debate though... Wink

sequoia1232

I totally agree with the converter thing. I meant "we" as in, my camp. I'm totally not trying to say that this top end gear has no place in sampled, or electronic music. There definitely is a benefit in using it, but if you have limited resources, they'd be better directed elsewhere. Diminishing returns.

I have a personal aversion to running a piece of gear into a box that is many times more expensive than the piece itself. Although, I'm sure the headroom alone on the prism is pretty useful.

I was probably the most productive and excited about music when I was using my tascam 4-track. That's half truth and half nostalgia though I guess.

Anyway, my point was, that I personally have been largely disappointed when I've used the really good stuff. Most of the sound lies in your own personal talent, and mine could still always use developing. I'm always weighing the time it takes me to buy X piece of expensive gear, vs putting that time towards making beats.

This is an interesting topic that I've spent a lot of time and money trying to figure out on my own...thanks for your take!

Deta!L

Drinks

Agreed on the expensive gear point. Wasted time saving for a Rosetta 800 so when the Duet was released, I decided to get that and use the rest of the money on my daughter.

In all honesty, I'm trying to get myself an open reel recorder like a Revox B77 so I can cut out the convertor process altogether (mixdown the 1/4" tape in a commercial studio). I'd love to be able to record to tape again and screw Pro Tools and the hassle that comes with computers. Have something tangible which is the comp in the form of a reel. Stay in the analog realm.

btw, I managed to pick up 40 blank ampex 5" reels for $40. All sealed, all from the late 70s early 80s and all in perfect order, no oxides.

Just need the open reel recorder now...

DRUMAT!C

always record your analog to digital signals in 24-bit.

boomspot

Yeah, I just grabbed an Apogee Ensemble for tracking beats to Logic. Sounds good to me. Before I was using a MOTU 828MKII and a Rosetta 200. I don't see anything wrong with running an SP into a high quality mixer, preamp or A/D to get the best possible sound. I usually sample into the SP thru a 1073 but when i'm motivated I'll track the SP thru my outboard pres. I also have a 24 track Soundtracs solo wired up to an Alesis HD24XR. I use the analog rig & mix down to 1/4" tape when I don't feel like messing with the computer rig. I like having 48 inputs wired up and ready to go.

D

TBC

what are you using for the 1/4" tape?

ALX

I monitor my SP1200 using a Mackie 32-8. I also record my 8 outs with an RME Fireface 800. I send the 8 outs from the Mackie to the 8 ins of the RME inputs. I eq some of the sounds for example a guitar sample that might have some bass in it, i eq the bass out so I can have better levels on that sound and so on.

The ideal setup for me is a 16track tape machine. 8 tracks for the SP and 8 for vocals. Then mixdown on the mackie.

A/D - D/A

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