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JaeOne3345
SpUser
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 41
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| Sampling at higher speeds (45 rpm etc) properly |
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Something important on the sp is to remember sampling in tune, or sampling at higher speeds that still fall on perfect semitones, because the sp has no fine tune.
I wrote this for mpc-forums and everybody blew it off:
Someone had asked how much they should pitch a sound down to get it back to normal pitch.
Check it out:
The easiest way to test this is using a middle C sine test record, with the addition of a guitar tuner.
(If you do not have a test tone record, but you have serato, use soundforge or any other program to make a middle C tone wave file, and load that into serato).
With the record playing at 0% 33 rpm, the guitar tuner should hold a solid C.
When I use my old samplers like my sp-1200, I have no option for fine tune. The sp-1200 only pitches in semitones(halfsteps) with no way to fine tune. So if you sample out of tune, every note will be out of tune. Being that need to sample in fast to save as much sample time, here is what I do:
Put the turntable on 45 rpm, and using the guitar tuner, go up and down the pitch control (technics 1200) finding the highest speed that gives a *solid semitone* meaning the guitar tuner should be holding still on semitone X, X#, etc. It should not be teetering between two half steps, for example, going back and forth hunting between F and F# (a little sharp or a little flat). You don't want to take a sample and have your sample inbetween two half steps, because then you have to deal with fine tuning, etc. Waste of time.
On a technics 1200 turntable that *has a pitch control in GOOD CONDITION*, you will find that about +4.5% on 45rpm will give you the highest speed on 45 rpm that still falls onto a solid semitone. This translates to a F# (remember, 0% 33 rpm was middle C). F# is 6 semitones up from C.
So if I sample a record (considering the original players had their instruments all tuned), I know that I can sample in at 45 rpm +4.5% and pitch it back down 6 semitones (-6) and be right back in tune with the original record.
When I add synths, keys, or play live bass to my sampled beats, I never have to bother using fine pitch adjustment.
Keep in mind this works on MY 1200's. My 1200's are matched to each other so when I rock doubles, I KNOW that 7% on one table is 7% on the another table. I haven't done it with my Vestax tables. I recommend everyone use a tuner and see what works with THEIR turntables. If you have dirty turntables, or if your pitch controls are not calibrated properly, my values will NOT work for you.
Find a strobe tuner, like a Peterson, if possible. Most accurate IMO.
Somebody will probably say "wtf is this guy talking about" but anyone who has tuned an instrument knows what I am talking about when I say a a tune can be sitting in between two semitones (out of tune, a bit sharp or flat).
If the band/record you are sampling was too lazy to tune their instruments before they started recording, then you are **** outta luck and you need to deal with fine tuning. LOL.
If you have people play music over your tracks (session players), they will appreciate you doing this.
If you sample at normal speeds, don't worry about it.
P.S. I always see people using fine tune (doesn't apply to the sp-1200) in order to make a loop fit. That technique is garbage. Make the track a little faster or slower. Don't mess with the pitch if you know it is in tune. Or chop the loop into pieces and play it back in time so it fits properly. |
Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:26 am |
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Drinks
SpUser
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 234
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Very nice.
Relies on:
1. The recording being at concert pitch (A = 440Hz)
2. Your turntable to be at clocked at 50 cycles per second. KAB do a mod for the technics to ensure just this.
Thanks for the lengthy post.
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Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:58 am |
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Drinks
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 234
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| Drinks wrote: | | 50 cycles per second.. |
That'll be 60 cycles in the USA.
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Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:59 am |
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JaeOne3345
SpUser
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 41
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| Drinks wrote: | Very nice.
Relies on:
1. The recording being at concert pitch (A = 440Hz)
2. Your turntable to be at clocked at 50 cycles per second. KAB do a mod for the technics to ensure just this.
Thanks for the lengthy post. |
Excellent point Drinks.
It's true. This does assume that the band had their instruments tuned, and did use the standard 440Hz tuning |
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Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:10 pm |
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RHYTHM MONSTER
SpUser
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 290
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I don't have serato but great post Jae. |
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Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:14 pm |
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Deck Daddy
SpUser
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 93
Location: myspace.com/deckdaddy |
Yo, that's why you get a deck with a 50% pitch! 6 steps down in the SP is not a very good way to get the maximum out of those 10 sec. sampling time.
I found out how to get correct pitch out of my deck by doing it this way:
sample a record at the regular 33 speed, and pitch it up in the sampler, and finally match the pitch with you'r turntable.
Or pitch up in another sampler/computer to get the MAXIMUM out of the SP.
Very often records are a little out of tune, so you'll really have to check each time you are going to sample that it's in perfect pitch if you are going to play along with it without tuning additional instruments to the SP. I have (at least until now) never cared about "correct pitch" of the sample in the beat, rather just tuning the bass/synth/additional samples to the beat afterwards. No big hazzle to me.
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SP-beat tapes at www.myspace.com/deckdaddy |
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Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:47 am |
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peterpiper0815
SpUser
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 76
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I always thought I'll have to pitch down exactly 5 semitones to get a 45 sample back to original. It hit me like a hammer when I realized (just last week) that it has to be -5 semitones AND -20 cent. Put me in a strange mood "what have I heard the last 20 years   " ok I use the 45 technique since 2 years but I was shocked never the less.
So the best advise is to listen to Jae. Thank you!
peace |
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Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:04 pm |
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JaeOne3345
SpUser
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 41
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| Deck Daddy wrote: | Yo, that's why you get a deck with a 50% pitch! 6 steps down in the SP is not a very good way to get the maximum out of those 10 sec. sampling time.
I found out how to get correct pitch out of my deck by doing it this way:
sample a record at the regular 33 speed, and pitch it up in the sampler, and finally match the pitch with you'r turntable.
Or pitch up in another sampler/computer to get the MAXIMUM out of the SP.
Very often records are a little out of tune, so you'll really have to check each time you are going to sample that it's in perfect pitch if you are going to play along with it without tuning additional instruments to the SP. I have (at least until now) never cared about "correct pitch" of the sample in the beat, rather just tuning the bass/synth/additional samples to the beat afterwards. No big hazzle to me. |
As I said already, this is for folks with technics 1200s. The values would be very different if I used the extended pitch on my vestax pdx 2000. 6 steps may not be enough for you, but it is fine for me. 45rpm +4.5% vs 45rpm +8% is not enough of a big deal to make me not use it (45 rpm +4.5%). I still get plenty of time, especially when paired with my s950 or mpc. I do just fine without having to pitch up in software, etc first. I just keep it simple this process.
It's not a big hassle unless u start hiring folks to come in and play over your stuff and none of your music is at a a standard 440 tuning. I don't wanna tune my motif , then tune my bass guitar, then tune my synth, etc to some off tune setting to get it to match a sample that is out of tune.
In regards to records often being out of tune, yea I mentioned it:
"If the band/record you are sampling was too lazy to tune their instruments before they started recording, then you are **** outta luck and you need to deal with fine tuning. LOL."
To each his own. Like I said before, some people are whatever about this. It may help some other folks though.
But anyways, the -5 trick for 45 rpm 0% is wrong. |
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Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:50 am |
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DFACE DXA
admin
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 955
Location: BRONX NYC |
deck?sample the sound before to figure out the picth?
thanks jaeone for droppin some knowledge
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Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:04 am |
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